And interacting with me gives other people that stumble onto your blog an opportunity to learn about you as well. With good, open conversations going back & forth between us, maybe people that didn’t understand you before can gain that additional insight as well. I feel this will do good for the things you are all trying to support.

From this point on I would like to be able to visit you all & not have you assume I think your unhealthy or that I think you ’should’ be trying to lose weight. I’m the only one that ‘needs’ to lose weight around here!!

I want all of you to know something else. I have a tremendous respect for all of you. I haven’t walked in your shoes. I don’t know what you’ve been through. I would never presume to. I don’t know what it is like constantly being harrassed about weight, health, happiness, etc.

My little 3 year stint with struggling to lose weight is nothing compared to what many of you have known. I do not assume that it does.

I am off to ask other people a bunch of annoying questions. I wish each of you the best that life has to offer you! Be happy!!

At first this was my very reaction to Veronica’s probing but I think after reading many comments that part of what she’s looking to find out is really more about metabolism in general: what IS normal? Does it mesh with BMI or not at all? Is it different for each person? CAN one person really have a “need” to lose weight because something in their body really isn’t functioning correctly? And these are really good questions to be asking I feel and I’m glad that, despite what started as some tense back and forth; that we both (Veronica and I) are getting some of these questions out and putting them to light.

It IS awful to be at a place of mental acceptance and happiness and have it constantly questioned (whether with concern or trollish anger as I sometimes see in unapproved comments in my own blog’s moderation queue). But I firmly believe that asking questions is one step in getting something done. Whether that means we here ask the right questions and set some budding doctor on a quest to see if there IS a “correct” metabolism for all human bodies; or whether that means simply opening a few more eyes to the idea that we are all each going to have different opinions on what a “normal” level of health feels like: these are still good questions to be asking.

IMHO of course

I am not offended by your words. You’ve explained where you’re coming from and I understand your motivations – I even understand why you think that Kate Harding and her co-bloggers are mean and aggressive. That was my first impression, too. You know what it is that makes them so angry though? The endless repetition. What I’m about to say to you has been said before, millions of times, and the only reason why I still have the patience to do so is that those other times it wasn’t me saying it. I have argued with undecided people before and it wasn’t easy; I can only imagine what it must be like to deal with actual haters on a regular basis.

Now, let’s get to the point! I have a tendency to write novel-length comments as well.

Here’s the thing: Why do you assume that we (I mean April and myself, not you) would benefit from weight loss? Why do you assume that my body stopped metabolising food correctly when I started to gain weight? What if, in fact, it was metabolising it incorrectly before and what it is now doing is how it should always have been? Can you tell by looking?

The difference between alcoholism and fatness is that alcoholism will always have negative side effects. You can’t be an alcoholic and not be affected by it, but you can very well be fat and live a happy, long life – especially if you happen to live on an island far away from civilisation where no one has ever heard of the idea that it may be a bad thing. *sigh* Another difference: Alcohol could technically cause addiction in anyone, but not everyone can get fat. Believe me, I know people who’ve tried.

I’m not going to ask why you are so intent on finding a cause and a cure for your fatness, as I can easily imagine why, so let me instead describe what it feels like to be told that we should be looking for causes and cures as well. It feels like being told to go see a doctor despite experiencing no symptoms. It feels like being told to switch jobs despite being happy with your current one. It feels like being told that it can’t possibly be five o’clock although you’re sitting right in front of a clock that clearly says so. In short, it feels unnecessary and out of place.

To use an example I’ve used before, asking me to “not give up” in this instance makes about as much sense as telling a guitarist to not give up on trying to be a drummer instead. I have no reason to be interested in weight loss. You say we should encourage our doctors to look for a solution to our “weight problems” before asking us if we have any. Personally I don’t have a weight problem, I just have a weight. Which is higher than two years ago, but I don’t mind. I feel more comfortable this way and I’m glad that it happened. Do you go to a doctor if you feel better than usual to find out why??

However, I know that I’m part of a very small minority in this. For most people, acceptance doesn’t come naturally and they have to work hard in order to achieve it. Yes, they have to work hard for years. Some have said that it was much harder than dieting. And that’s what you call a loss of power? Being brave enough to take on such a challenging task? I beg to differ.

So what if we found our causes and cures? What if? Would we be happier? Prettier? Healthier? I disagree with two of those and do not know the answer to the third – and I am disinclined to try things on a whim for no good reason.

The problem is that you’re convinced that we would benefit from weight loss, when in fact you have no way of knowing. That’s where the disagreement comes from.

You have every right to believe whatever you want about your own body, but please don’t pity us (or jump up and down in front of us) for having different attitudes towards ours. We’re not suffering.

If I truly am unable to lose the weight and never stop being fat, I will continue to work with my doctor to find out why, exercise for health & eat healthy. The weight charts tell me I should be around 125lbs. I haven’t weight that since adolesence. I used to body build & carry alot of muscle. I determined that a weight of 140-145lbs feels good. That puts my bmi at about 18.

Keep in mind, I’ve only been overweight for 3 years, & I caused my weight problem. 3.5 years ago, I weighed 148lbs. That was a ‘typical’ weight for me. When my husband & I started dating/living in sin, I started eating… and eating… and eating. Mostly hagen daz ice cream topped with chocolate cake, with a dark chocolate candy bar on the side. Needless to say, my riding couldn’t compensate for my caloric increase. I got fat.

But something else happened. Through my initial dieting attempts, I started noticing that my body responded strongly to certain foods. (Keep in mind, part of the dieting was induced to validate a wheat allergy, which they have no standard test for. You have to ‘clean’ your diet of all wheat & reintroduce it back into your diet to see the reaction.)

Working with this & my Dr., we were also able to find out I am highly metobolically resistant. We haven’t found out why yet, but it causes me to have difficulty losing weight through normal diet & exercise. We have isolated it to certain types of food, but that’s a whole other wordy comment. The important thing for you to hear is that certain foods cause me to not lose weight, not because of the quantity but because of their molecular structure.

While I was doing that, my husband was also experimenting with his eating habits. We started to find the most interesting things. His metabolism functions very differently than mine. He is able to eat fruit without it affecting his weight loss. He just has to be careful of his calorie consumption. (he easily has days where 3000-5000 calories is common, so his calorie restriction puts him at 2000-2500, which is still really healthy.

Small amounts of fruit with an 1800 calorie diet, with moderate exercise causes my weight to creep up. Small amounts of wheat products within the same calorie & exercise levels cause the same thing. That is not a ‘normal ‘ reaction. But there is something to that. That is what I am trying to find out.

My step-daughter is 23 yrs old. In december of 2006, she weighed 195lbs, and is 5′2″. She’s struggled for many years with her weight. She came to live with us March 2007. She began changing what she ate and riding her bike 1 time each week. She carefully watched what foods made her gain & what foods didn’t. Her list was different from mine. By the end of the summer, she was down to 153lbs. By the end of the year, 125lbs. (which is a healthy weight for her height)

Now that her weight is down, she can eat a greater variety of foods, but will remove certain ones if it starts to raise again. And she quit cycling due to busy-ness. She is doing well. (I am not trying to talk about a dieting, and you’ll miss my point if you think that)

Comparing her list to mine, we saw alot of similarities, although it’s not completely the same. She has the same trouble with wheat products, but fruit doesn’t seem to bother her.

That leads me to believe there might be a connection. But I need to check it out with more people. Hence my questioning you on your blog. I was not expecting to find what I did.

Final part of the answer: When I say I’m having trouble losing weight, you have to put it in the correct context. I’ve always been able to lose weight easily. Even with eating chocolate & steak, if I exercised a little more, the weight dropped off. But then I quit smoking. (2004) A lot of things changed from there. I am currently losing weight, just not as fast as before. The biggest timewaster was me wandering around pretending I wasn’t ‘really’ fat, what ever that meant. Noww I am fully embracing the fact that I AM fat, and making changes for my health.

I am very interested in hearing more about the research on weight ranges you have found, as well as further discuss your involvement with Fat Acceptance. You have the opportunity to do some really amazing things with the platform you have created. Engaging those of us that are ‘in between’ may add dramatically to your cause. You & I are similar, we both want to help people be healthy. I do it through cycling & you do it through weigh advocacy. : )

I’ve found a wealth of research pointing not only to the dangers and troubles that calorie restriction and intense exercise can cause for our bodies (still not saying don’t do it if you want to but hold on..); but also to the fallacy that there is ONE RANGE of healthy weights. Studies are showing not only that being in the now-dubbed “overweight” range brings health benefits (yes, benefits) but that indeed the range of what is “healthy” varies. For EACH individual. We all have a natural point at which our bodies like to rest in weight-stasis; provided (as you’ve said) that nothing is really wrong.

I have more and find this discussion definitely thought provoking but have to head out the door for another whirlwind day for now!

Let me start by saying I don’t think you understand where I was the first time I posted on your blog, and I’m not sure you understand anymore now, well, maybe a little. However, I understand why that may be.

Difference of opinions are what help each of us learn & grow. My reason for initially posting on your blog was to gain insight to someone’s perspective other than my own.

While we’re close to that, let me tell you why I read your blog in the first place. My initial reaction to you was one of admiration. That you throw fear to the wind & do fun things like belly-dancing, that is so cool. My recent weight gain has caused me to not do a few of the things I love. (for now)

I also want to say, it isn’t about us disagreeing. I don’t surround myself with people that agree with me. I surround myself with people that have minds of their own & respect & love me. Our differing opinions only add to the flavor of our friendships.

I don’t want you to agree with me, I want you to hear me. It does sometimes sound as if you’re responding to comments that aren’t in agreement with yours in a defensive way. I’m not going to attack you, so there’s no need to be defensive with me.

If you are truly into taking many viewpoints in to consideration. That is really all I ever wanted, for you to consider my point. If you went back to my first comment and reread it, I think you might see that. I’m curious why your first reaction to me was one of anger.

From what I read, it appears that you do have a wonderful life, and I applaud you for that. Please don’t think that I think you are a liar because you are overweight. I’ve never alluded to that in the least. My initial comments had to do with misinformation given by doctors & scientists about how our body metabolizes food. It has been a consistant theme in my blog & comments. You are incorrect with this following statement concerning me – “No one who looks at fat me will care even if I WERE “trying” to lose weight.”

While it is true the world will not care, I care. I care about alot of people. I wish weight were something none of had to deal with. And this is where you missed my point. I believe those of you that have tried diet & exercise and are still overweight have ’something else going on’. I’m not trying to discuss a diet with you, I’m trying to get info on a problem that appears to be affecting alot of people in this country, me & my husband included.

Please hear what I am saying. When I discuss people eating a normal amount of food & doing regular exercise while gaining weight not being normal, I am not saying the person isn’t normal. I am saying that their body’s response to the food isn’t normal. Do you see what I mean?

I’m not going to bore you with details about my difficult childhood, but it had nothing to do with being fat. Fat is not what I fight. I’ve spent the majority of my life being thin. (I am 5″8′ & broad shouldered, I’ve never been skinny, but this is the first time in my life I’ve been overweight.) I’ve spent my life fighting against the scars my childhood left on me. And I have triumphed victoriously.

I am happy about your fight against ‘fat as bad’. If you read my comments or my blog, you would see this is something we agree on.

As far as carrying alot of weight on your frame, I don’t think it is ‘bad’. But it will wear your body down faster. Few weeks ago, we went to visit my husband’s grandmother in the hospital. She has for 30 years carried extra adipose tissue, she’s about 225lbs.

She is 80yrs old. For the last 35 years, she’s been absolutely miserable, because of the weight. Now she is in the hospital, her heart so engulfed in interior fat she can barely breath. She’s spent 15yrs being pretty much unable to walk due to her size.

He has another grandmother, bout the same age. Her weight is around 150lbs. Her quality of life had been really great til about 3 yrs ago. She’s still doing really well, just not as mobile as before. I would prefer to go into old age without extra adipose tissue. I’m thinking it might add to my quality of life as I age.

Let me clear up your confusion. Oh, I am one of the lucky ones. I have spent my life easily living up to the world’s standards. Tall, blonde, beautiful. As beautiful as I’ve been, I know the ‘world’ has a very short attention span, is always looking for the next best thing, so it really doesn’t matter how well anyone measures up. We all fall out of favor in an instant, in the world’s eyes. That’s why I have never cared.

My wish to lose weight has more to do with insanely high health care costs & the fact that I am in my mid-forties. I am looking at the next 40 years and I want to ensure good quality of life as I age. At 172lbs, I’m not obese, but will continue to gain as I age, so want to put a stop to it now. My diet is more about increased health & strength & nothing about living up to the world’s standards.

You see, even though I am older, and overweight, the ‘world’ still finds me acceptable. Through no fault of my own, good gene pool I guess. Lemme tell you, April, I look darn good FMA. (for my age). My problem is I am a cyclist. I ride my bike between 150 & 200 miles a week. (yeah, I said week, not month) Not to lose weight, just for fun. And I am unable to lower my weight. How’s that for weird. (at 15amph, it takes alot of time to go 200 miles)

So, I started this blog to hold myself accountable for getting truly healthy. And I wandered out into the blogosphere to find other people who were struggling. As I told you before, not to discuss diets, but to discuss the fallacies of the evil weight lose industry, and the poor quality of care so many doctors provide. A CRY FOR TRUTH, JUSTICE AND THE FACTS ABOUT OUR METABOLISM!! (sorry, I get a little dramatic at times, it’s all the cycling I do.)

See the word diet means different things to you & me. To me diet is a healthy way of eating. OK, so I have chosen to restrict my calorie intake to 1800 calories for the next 4 months, but I don’t think that’s dramatic. The rest of my ‘dieting’ has to do with the fact that I am allergic to wheat. I’ve never done ‘fad’ diets. I eat alot of protein because my body naturally carries alot of muscle, it needs more protein. I exercise alot because my husband & I run a cycling club, so we lead alot of rides. We also teach beginner riders how to ride. It means we naturally spend alot of time on our bikes. And I’m still fat, go figure!!

Lastly let me expound on what I meant about the ‘give up’ thing. I didn’t say you give up dieting or exercise. I said you give up when it got hard, when everything you tried didn’t work. If I were having a weight issue, and was watching what I ate & exercising regularly, I’d be in my doctor’s office jumping up & down as if my hair were on fire, demanding that he find out what is really wrong. (now you know what I did last month) That is what I meant by give up. Don’t take no for an answer. There is a reason our body’s do not metabolise food properly. I am fighting to find out why.

Maybe our wordy responses to each other are destined because somewhere in them, we both will benefit. Whaddya think??

I do feel sad that you think my “well crafted response” was intended only to stifle conversation or put you “in your place.” That is certainly not my intent. I’m very much interested in taking many viewpoints and rolling them around; finding my take on research and moving on from there. Open dialog is important. And it was entirely possible that the first few times I read your post that I was reading it with knee-jerk anger; which is why I waited a few days to think about how I really felt about it. Yet it seems we both have very different viewpoints on some basic concepts that internet postings back and forth will likely not quickly change.

Now I could wax on poetic about how wonderful my life is; my great health; how I swim and belly dance and play trumpet and eat lots of veggies…and yet remain fat. But I would be called a liar or told I’ve really just “Stopped Trying”. Yet, as you assert so aptly: the world does NOT CARE if you’re “trying”. Results are all that matter. No one who looks at fat me will care even if I WERE “trying” to lose weight. And even if everything anyone is selling has that “results not typical” tag-line; we are still expected to buy into that solution).

“When you are faced with something bad, you have 2 choices. You can crawl into a fetal postion & give up or you can stand up & fight, face your limitations and be an overcomer. ”

You cannot possibly be more correct. Yet I think the huge difference is that you and I differ simply on what we are fighting as the “something bad”. You are fighting against “fat”. I am fighting against “fat AS bad”: against the instant assumption that me having more adipose tissue than anyone else automatically means I am somehow broken or in need of fixing.

We can certainly agree to dis-agree on these points and still be civil to each other. I feel in so many ways we do have a very similar distrust and disgust of the current medical system and the shilling of diet-plans that abound in this country. I won’t tell you that you aren’t able to make your own choices about dieting; just as you’ve declared you wouldn’t by any means try to indicate I SHOULD be dieting (though I question that a bit from this line “I accept that you have chosen to be overweight. I accept that you gave up when it got hard.” because trust me; fat folks don’t GIVE UP because dieting is HARD when the proof of how wonderful the world will be to them if they were thinner is everywhere to be seen and heard. Just saying. But, like my line about not being your “dieting sister” perhaps this was also a bit of reflex anger? Perhaps not.

I am confused by this though:

“I live in the same world you do. I know the world isn’t going to accept me. ” followed immediately by “None of us will ever measure up. None of us are good enough for the world’s standards. But the difference between you & me is I don’t allow the world to dictate my value. I dictate my value.”

How are you truly dictating your own value when you spend so much time trying to become closer and closer to fitting the standard that you’ve already admitted the world will never accept anyways? That seems very self defeating to me.

That said though, you are an adult. You can make your own life choices. You want to diet and exercise purely for the weight-lose results: it is certainly no skin off my nose (or teeth….or fat off my bum, whatever you choose to think of for that analogy).

Sorry that got so long winded. (We seem destined somehow to post very wordy responses to each other!)

That’s actually pretty profound. And it’s the point most FA folks miss. That you can be as supportive as you want to be, but the same underlying emotional issues exist.

They think if you conquer the criticism that future generations won’t have to deal with what they dealt with, but the truth is being fat can have consequences that are unsatisfying on a personal level even without society’s scorn.

Good post.